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The Matrix Sequels Suck!/No, They’re Great-You Don’t Get It! |
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 Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 3:11 am |
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The Matrix Sequels Suck!/No, They’re Great - You Just Don’t Get It!
In preparation for my review of Reloaded, here's a thread to discuss whether or not you hate or love the sequels. Truly, either position is fine with me (although I love them).
Have at it. 
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 2:06 am |
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I loved the sequels. Reloaded was to the Matrix what The Empire Strikes Back was to Star Wars and Revolutions brought the story to a great end.
_________________
"If God Did Not Exist, It Would Be Necessary To Invent Him." - Voltaire
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:48 pm |
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I love "Animatrix", wonderfull animation. If the other sequels were made like this... not telling the same story, but exploring the different points of Matrix Universe...About the other sequels, I think, it's everything about money (I think it's the main reason why the "Reloaded" and "Revoliutions" were created) or just lack of creativity. You know, like some bands, when they release first album, it's fresh and new, and goes very well. But if they don't develop and goes with same formula to next and third albums, it becomes boring and interesting just to obssesed fans. Maybe I need to rewatch those movies, all I remember is two boring movies going on the train of first movie.
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:49 am |
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I also think the sequels were made too quickly after the first movie. The first movie was likely a baby to the Wachowski brothers and kept and refined for a long time, the sequels were hardly as polished in terms of dialogue and pacing.
_________________
-Just a thought-
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:43 am |
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I totally agree, I loved Animatrix. I watched it so many times late at night on Adult Swim during last summer, it ran from about 12- to 2 am every saturday. One of the highlights of my summer, really.
_________________
"This is it, you've only got one shot, and it's already started."
-Roger Waters, on the subject of time.
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:33 am |
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| illusivemind wrote: | | I also think the sequels were made too quickly after the first movie. The first movie was likely a baby to the Wachowski brothers and kept and refined for a long time, the sequels were hardly as polished in terms of dialogue and pacing. |
I really didn't have an issue with pacing in either of the sequels. The pacing was certainly different from most movies, but wasn't unlike Oshii's pacing, for instance. And truly, I pretty much loved the dialogue in reloaded. I do agree that there were some dialogue issues in some of the revolutions scenes though (most notably the kid scenes, and Trinity's 67 minute death scene).
But by all accounts, the Wachowskis were in full control of the sequels. I'm sure it was pretty darn complex filming two movies at once, but they had storyboarded all the scenes in the same excrutiating detail that they did the original.
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:38 pm |
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The sequels suck AND they are great.
They suck as sequels since the best part of the first Matrix was in finding out the reality as we know it is an illusion followed by the coming of age of a messiah figure.
The sequels are great action-flicks in its own. There seems to be little connection to the first episode. Somehow the creators got mixed up in their own plot(holes) trying their very best to complete a story that was already finished in part one. How much further can you take omnipotence and create an enticing storyline where you actually care for the people in it?
Heroes are no fun. The process of ordinary people becoming heroes is.
Still.. fun movies to watch (well, besides the toe-wrenching orgy-house-party part)
Go on - prove me wrong!
Muhahahaha!
Neuromancer
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 2:13 am |
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| Neuromancer wrote: | The sequels suck AND they are great.
They suck as sequels since the best part of the first Matrix was in finding out the reality as we know it is an illusion followed by the coming of age of a messiah figure.
The sequels are great action-flicks in its own. There seems to be little connection to the first episode. Somehow the creators got mixed up in their own plot(holes) trying their very best to complete a story that was already finished in part one. How much further can you take omnipotence and create an enticing storyline where you actually care for the people in it?
Heroes are no fun. The process of ordinary people becoming heroes is.
Still.. fun movies to watch (well, besides the toe-wrenching orgy-house-party part)
Go on - prove me wrong!
Muhahahaha!
Neuromancer |
http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/movie/essays/understanding-the-matrix-trilogy-from-a-man-machine-interface-perspective/
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:54 pm |
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Reloaded. One of my top 10 favorite movies of all time. Even better than the original (though not as, well...original, lol). I have watching this over and over again. Ass kicking, more ass kicking, guns, explosions, guns, cars, motorcycles, ass kicking. Oh, I was in "man" heaven. Though, in addition to satisfying my fix for shameless violence, this movie introduced several interesting plots and twists that I was eager to see how they got resolved down the road. To me this movie didn't have a cyberpunk feel despite having alot of key Cyberpunk elements, I had approached the whole trilogy as action movies (which the first 2 definately were), this mindset is probably what lead to...
Revolutions: Was this horrid piece of steaming dogcrap made by the same guys? All those neat twists and plots from Reloaded...they just got dropped as if they never existed, completely forgotten about in this movie. Neo was such a whimp in this thing, if Pee-wee Herman showed up, he would have whooped Neo's butt (most of his fighting was poor 1950's movie style fighting outside the matrix). Wasn't this "Matrix" part 3? They were in the Matrix for maybe 5 minutes in this movie. It was known that the cycle of Zion being destroyed had already happened 5 or 6 times, then the machines repeated the cycle. The cycle needed to be broken for this movie to be about something truly unique. It wasn't, making the whole thing meaningless and hollow, pointess. I could go on and on about how horrible this movie is, but the more I type the more pissed off I get - having this excellent trilogy ruined, and on top of it, never given any type of closure, leaving me feeling like it was my favorite TV show that got cancelled before they finished it.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:07 pm |
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| Neuromancer wrote: | | Still.. fun movies to watch (well, besides the toe-wrenching orgy-house-party part) |
Confused - that is the only thing I could feel when this popped on the screen. 
Seriously, this scene had no place in the movie. It seemed forced and it was glaringly obviously it should not be in the movie.
The one thing that puzzled me though is why they risked putting this non-sensical scene into the movie. It served no purpose - but you show thousands of people making out and lewdly caressing each other in what the movie calls a "temple". Now, the only thing I can see happening here, is this the blasphemous undertones of this thing upsetting people with moderate to strong religious beliefs and causing them to not come to the movie after hearing about this and/or not picking up the DVD's due to this scene. Upsetting a possibly large fan base for no reason at all seems counter productive.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:50 pm |
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IMHO, it's not that the sequels "suck", it's just that the first one was so PERFECT that any that followed it would have its flaws be that more apparent. And yes, the sequels have flaws, but they can be set aside if one seeks to understand the story.
The pacing is kinda weird in the sequels, especially the second one, and the plot throws some HEAVY stuff at us without warning or frame of reference, so it can be a little daunting to understand(the Architect). But the fact is that not since the original Star Wars have we had such an ambitious and fresh franchise with the care to craft a whole new mythology around. And CYBERPUNK, to boot.
And face it, everybody wants to pilot one of the robots in the third one! 
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:33 pm |
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I have no problem with people bringing up beefs with pacing and dialogue in Reloaded/Revolutions. I think there was some pacing problems in Reloaded and some dialogue deficiencies in Revolutions. The odd thing is the almost god-like status of the original film and the idea that it was flawless and drug down by the sequels. All three films have issues. I think The Matrix had some pacing problems in the middle. All films have problems and things we'd like to fix if we could.
For my money Reloaded could've cut out some of the Zion scenes without losing any punch. The movie really gets started when Neo meets Seraph and never lets up after that. Neo's exchanged with The Oracle, Smith, The Merovingian, and The Architect are masterful IMO. Not to mention the artistic action sequences from the manic Burly Brawl to the poetic Chateau all the way to one of the greatest car chases in history along with Road Warrior.
Revolutions unfolds at a deliberate pace not unlike an epic poem but hits a few snags with some perfunctory dialogue. I can only surmise that at that point with the war culminating and danger imminent the Brothers didn't think many characters would get their profound groove on.
Visually all three films never fail to impress or be ambitious. Philosophically they are amazingly consistent when looked at as one entity. The story is led to a profound and satisfactory conclusion that not only ends the story but allows the reader to fill some blanks for themselves. I don't know what else could be asked for.
_________________
Helping people is against my principles.
-Jeffrey Goines
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:18 pm |
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Good to see you up and about, Spike.
I don't get the dialogue complaints in Revolutions... in my experience, the dialogue is much clunkier and cringe inducing in Reloaded. In places it's the writing, most of the time it's the execution, though. I just can't stand most of the non-action scenes in Reloaded. Revolutions is much easier on the ears/eyes/brain, and I personally like the Dock defense/Hammer run sequence a hell of a lot more than all the scenes in Reloaded combined.
Also, if there were any problems in the first film, I firmly believe it's less in total than what any of the sequels have in 15 minutes.
I cringe at a couple of lines in part one, and that's about it as far as complaints are concerned.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:21 pm |
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| [ETM] wrote: | Good to see you up and about, Spike.
I don't get the dialogue complaints in Revolutions... in my experience, the dialogue is much clunkier and cringe inducing in Reloaded. In places it's the writing, most of the time it's the execution, though. I just can't stand most of the non-action scenes in Reloaded. Revolutions is much easier on the ears/eyes/brain, and I personally like the Dock defense/Hammer run sequence a hell of a lot more than all the scenes in Reloaded combined.
Also, if there were any problems in the first film, I firmly believe it's less in total than what any of the sequels have in 15 minutes.
I cringe at a couple of lines in part one, and that's about it as far as complaints are concerned. |
What is up, amigo? Long time no, word.
The dialogue complaints for me in Revolutions are basically that the lines are very generic and in parts poorly delivered. The sequences when they fall into the worst episode of Star Trek style dialogue with the "Goddamn it" guy and his crew. The endless meaningless conversation that basically does nothing but tell you what you are seeing in the most bland way possible "Got'em! or Hold on!" etc. The Kid saying "I believe" is another cringer. But pacing wise and overall I love Revolutions but I for me the dialogue was the least impactful of the three. Luckily it had so much going on visually that it can be forgiven.
Reloaded on the other hand is for me full of great discussions that liven up the film. The Architect's monologue is so brilliantly precise that it just deserves kudos for guts. I mean can you imagine a studio reading that section of the film which is basically the climax of the second movie and saying "Systemic Anomaly? Is that a band?". I think there is some definite pacing problems around the time they land in Zion however. Scenes b/w Link and Zee leave something to be desired and the rave goes on longer than required. However at the point that Neo meets Seraph the movie finally bursts out of the gates and never stops until the end. Which is cool for me.
The first film has some problems of it's own. At certain points in the original you get them explaining the same thing over and over. Mostly to establish the different realities and make sure people understand it but nevertheless after two or three expositions about the Matrix not being the real world I got it. Really.
But I love all three despite flaws.
\
Fanboy
_________________
Helping people is against my principles.
-Jeffrey Goines
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:38 pm |
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| spikethebloody wrote: | | What is up, amigo? Long time no, word. |
Indeed. I'm still online all over the place, ICINE, RT, Matchcut... lots of work to do, so I mainly browse.
Yeah, I agree with you in general, but I interpret the things a little bit differently.
Revolutions might have had the dryest dialogue, but I actually like that - after heavy talk in Reloaded, Revolutions was like refreshment, like they let the story unfold on its own, mostly visually, and my brain accepted that approach, so it worked for me.
Reloaded had great moments - the Oracle, the Architect, as you mentioned - but lots of stuff was just... I don't know, just left a bad taste in my mouth. All of the stuff with the Merovingian and Monica Bellucci did more harm to the story than good, and I really hated the direction they took with the action scenes, even though they were good.
I guess it all comes down to the time that had passed between the first and second film - it gave everyone so much time to speculate and imagine things based on what they gave us to work with, and the biggest problem with Reloaded, that spilled over to Revolutions, is the disappointment many people felt when they realised that what they had imagined was infinitely more fun, spectacular and epic than what the Wachowskis delivered.
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